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| | I hate to be a killjoy, but I don't know if this is the best idea. I understand the whole idea of meeting people where they are and demonstrating that Christians can have fun too, but couldn't it be confusing? I know that there are even a lot of Christians that struggle with the whole 'freedom in Christ' vs. 'separation' issue, so I'm thinking it isn't such a bad thing to tow the more conservative line in our efforts to be salt and light in a dark world. |
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| I've got to get that book!
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| | It seems to me that Jesus had no problem drinking with sinners, and got frustrated with the Pharisees who gave him a hard time for it. |
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| WWPJO Said,| It seems to me that Jesus had no problem drinking with sinners, and got frustrated with the Pharisees who gave him a hard time for it. |
The thing is, did Jesus go into the bars of the time to join with the sinners and if this is the case, how far will we take this? Will we next begin men's Bible studies in massage parlors or strip clubs? Psalm 1 comes to mind. Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night. |
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| | I also need to point out that there is a lack of the Gospel even mentioned in much of this. There are ideas of philosophical conversations yet no mention of reaching the lost with the Gospel. Philosophy fails us. Words speak emptiness, but the Gospel! We have a sad tendency to utter the words "ministry and outreach" without even a fleeting thought of truly reaching the lost. The Gospel, needs no "hook" as it were to be effectual. Utter the True Gospel and God will reap the harvest, all we must do is obediently pour forth in utterance. Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. |
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| | I thought the whole point of the conversation was about finding ways to develop relationships with the lost in order to build a foundation upon which they'd be truly open to discussions of the Gospel. Jesus had no problem getting a foot massage from a woman right in front of religious folk that were scandalized by it. |
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| | Was Jesus a drunk? No Was he a glutton? No A sinner? No A traitor (tax collector)? No But he was accused of being one, or being with all of the above. I think it's significant that Jesus turned water into wine for His first recorded miracle. I've heard of chruches around the world (NYC, London come to mind) where churches are held in bars on the slow night of week. They don't compromise the message, but the don't stop the regulars from having a beer while people open up their Bibles. I know they are accused of being a bunch of 'drunkards' and although our service is not held in a bar, I hope I get accused of the same thing someday. Yes there's risk. But I'd rather take the risk and be light and salt in the world, than be safe and be light and salt only with other light and salt.
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| | David said, I think it's significant that Jesus turned water into wine for His first recorded miracle. Have you studied out what the significance of this miracle and how it is a fulfillment of prophesy? Guys, I am not saying that a person cannot drink and I am not saying that we should not get into our communities and impact our culture, but we need to be careful about suggesting that we need first to build relationships with people before we share the Gospel. The lost will be turned off by the Gospel, we are assured of that. The spiritually dead are disinterested in the Gospel and the things of God, we are reminded of this in Scripture. But we stand a far greater risk of standing in the presence of our God with the blood of lost souls on our hands of those we have misled into thinking that they are Christians because they joined a ministry outreach, a Bible study, a church, or even worse said a prayer, than we do when we urgently call out to the lost to "Repent and Believe!" The utterance of the Gospel is not about building relationships, it is about obedience to God in rescuing the perishing. Would you rather build a relationship with the doctor who is doing CPR on you because you have stopped breathing before or after he has saved your life? I am not suggesting that we save people; God alone has wrought salvation. Our responsibility is first to reach the world with the Gospel, then we are to disciple, mentor, build relationships. |
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